3 thoughts on “Paternal Line – The Hay Family”

1. Hello,
   My inquiry relates to your Sophia Morgan 1817-1889. There are two Sophia Morgan born within a year of each other who are likely candidates; and I was wondering what source you have used to identify this Sophia Morgan as marrying John Hay? The other Sophia Morgan 1816 is the daughter of William Henry MORGAN and Emmeline HIBBINS born in Hobart Town. I would be very interested to collaborate. Do you are have any family papers that pin down which one is the correct one?

   Regards
   Carolyn Eddington
   Perth

   Reply

   • Records from the Tasmanian Archives: Sophia was a convict arriving in Tasmania via the convict ship Frances Charlotte on 10 January 1833 and on her arrival was assigned to William Able Jr in New Norfolk. Sophia received permission from the convict dept to marry John Hay on 17 Sept 1838 and the marriage occurred on 15 Oct 1838. John was incorrectly listed as John Hayes on both records. Before the marriage, on July 22, 1835, she was sent to the Cascades Female Factory having been “sublet” by William Able to Robert and Maria Hay without authorization – she had been at the Hayes property for about 13 months, having delivered child Mary (Morgan – no father listed) on August 6 1834. Sophia and Mary were released to John on Feb 22, 1838! Incidentally, Sophia was sent to the Hayes farm about July 1834 and Sophia birthed Mary the next month. John Hay is considered the father but some DNA connections (from a close cousin of mine and possibly me yet to be explored) point to William Able Jr. as the possible father since she was living and working on his property since about Feb 1833. Mary would have been conceived about October 1833 (if full term). Haven’t proved it yet but it is likely Able is the father and not John Hay unless John spent time at Able’s farm on and off. After John and Sophia married, they had their second child Robert. Unfortunately cannot upload the docs but they are available through the Archives – try name search for Sophia Morgan for marriage permission, marriage, convict records, etc.
     * The record of Sophia’s birth came from Find My Past I believe (paid subscription): Born 27 Jan, 1817 to John Morgan and Susannah nee Carter and baptized 16 March, 1817 in Mary-le-Bone parish, Middlesex. John and Susannah married 13 Oct 1804. On Apr 1832, the Old Bailey’s trial listed Sophia as aged “17 (or 15)” – if born Jan 27 1817, she would have been 15 when tried – yet when she arrived in Tasmania 10 Jan 1833, she was listed as 18 but would have been still 15 in reality, turning 16 on the 27th January. Her death record listed her as aged 73 on July 12, 1889. Born in Jan 10, 1817, she would have turned 71 on Jan 27, 1889. I looked up the other Sophie Morgan born 1816 – she was born to free settlers William and Emmaline. In 1827, she was listed on the 1827 census as aged 11 (thus born 1816) living on Goulburn St, Hobart with living parents. There was a Sophia Morgan who departed Launceston for the mainland in 1852 (if this was the 1816 Sophia, she would have been 41)m – no other marriage records found for her in Tasmania. There is an Ancestry tree that has the 1816 birth listed but is is tied incorrectly to the 1817 Sophia and her Hay marriage. Lots of bad info and much unsourced or verified on Ancestry!! Hope this helps.

     Glenda

     Reply

     • Hi Glenda,
       thank you for taking the time to write to me. I’ve got a link here which talks to the reason why Sophia was with the Hay’s and have got the reference included for you also. I agree scrawling through records is challenging and time intensive. https://wordpress.com/page/dcaldlan.com/1083

       When I visited the Cascade Factory back in 2019 I was able to find a written record confirming Sophia’s attendance and that of her daughter Mary Ann Morgan, excerpt below;

       Not long after she arrived in 1833 Sophia was allocated to Mr W. Able in the Back River district of New Norfolk to work as a Servant.  During this period Sophia had begun a relationship with a neighbor, John Hay, and was living with him on his father’s property. They had a child together – Mary Ann Morgan.  It doesn’t appear that Mr Able/Abel was particularly bothered about it as he allowed it for around thirteen months and didn’t raise a fuss.  In July of 1835, the authorities in Hobart had been made or had become aware that Sophia was ‘in neglect of her duties’. What was considered the major sticking issue was not her duties so much as the fact that she had borne a child.  Both John and his family put together a petition, pleading on Sophia’s behalf and Mary Ann’s that they be able to stay with them at Back River.

       Transcript of Sophia Morgan Conduct Record from Tasmania Archives: (I’ll save you the trouble of finding it page by page as I did- http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON40-1-7,312,86,L,49) The dates are wrong. The author wrote 1833 but they meant to write 1835. 1833 is when she arrived.  MORGAN Sophia Frances Charlotte 10 January 1833 Middx GD 5 April 1832 April 18, 1833, W Abel Neglect of duty Rep@ J England / June 1, 1833, W Abel Neglect of duty Rep@ J Fairweather / July 22, 1835, Brought up from the service of Mr. Robert Hayes of the Back River having been allowed by her Master Mr. Wm Abel Junior to remain in Mr. Hayes service for about 13 Mos without any authority from the Govt and having been delivered of a Child at Mr. Hayes House in the Month of August last, Mr. Hayes appears and produced a Written Authority signed William Abel Junior, To be returned to the F Factory with her Infant for the disposal of the Princip. Supernit J Mason. Cert 14/2/48.

       This was all to no avail and she was sent back to be incarcerated with her child at the Cascade Female Factory in what was referred to as a reformatory for convict women.  At the muster in 1835, Sophis was recorded as being in the House of Corrections. The female factories were a dangerous place.  In 1827 Governor Arthur ordered a female factory to be built at Cascade south of Hobart.  This became known as the Cascades Female Factory and had originally been a brewery.

       The DNA technology has given us so many opportunities. I’ve got 27 DNA matches to date with my first Hay ancestor, Sophia’s husband John Hay. In lieu of evidence to the contrary I believe my ancestors are Sophia Morgan and John Hay. Aside from that I wouldn’t comment on anyone else’s I agree it is very challenging following trails.

       I hope this helps somewhat and again thank you for contacting me.
       Warmest regards
       Darienne